Calculated Risk: What Real Estate Can Teach Us About Power, Perception, and Possibility

Summary

In this conversation, Steve Afra, a managing partner at Nvestor Funding, shares his extensive experience in private lending, discussing the nuances between private and hard money lending, the importance of risk management, and how to evaluate potential borrowers. He reflects on the emotional aspects of real estate transactions, the significance of vision in investment success, and the lessons learned about money and resilience in entrepreneurship. Steve emphasizes the need for consistency in business and the generational differences in understanding money, ultimately highlighting the importance of personal growth and resilience in navigating the challenges of entrepreneurship.

Key Takeaways

• Steve has over 30 years of experience in lending.
• The distinction between private lending and hard money lending is often misunderstood.
• Building trust in lending requires taking the high road and doing the right thing.
• Risk management is crucial in lending, especially in fluctuating markets.
• Evaluating a borrower's track record is essential for making informed lending decisions.
• Affordable housing remains a strong investment, even in recessionary times.
• Vision is key for investors looking to succeed in real estate.
• Emotions can negatively impact real estate transactions and decision-making.
• Money should be viewed as energy, and negative energy can lead to negative outcomes.
• Consistency in business practices is vital for long-term success.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Private Lending and Background
• 3:36 Understanding Private vs. Hard Money Lending
• 4:51 Navigating Risks in Lending
• 7:29 Evaluating Borrowers and Their Projects
• 8:17 Luxury Real Estate and Success Definitions
• 11:45 Advice for New Investors in Real Estate
• 13:10 Vision and Investment Success
• 14:39 Surprising Outcomes in Real Estate Deals
• 16:19 Managing Emotions in Real Estate Transactions
• 18:51 Lessons Learned About Money and Business
• 20:04 Resilience in Entrepreneurship
• 23:53 Consistency in Business and Relationships
• 25:45 Generational Perspectives on Money
• 28:06 The Importance of Personal Growth
• 31:52 Final Thoughts on Resilience and Resolution

Transcript

Dr. Shay: 0:01

Welcome back to The Resolution Room, where we turn tension into transformation through clarity, connection, and consistency. I'm your host, Dr. Nashay Lowe, and this is a space where we explore what's really underneath the moments that challenge us and how they can lead to something more honest, more human, and more whole. So let's get into it. There's a story behind every sale, and sometimes the biggest risk isn't the money, it's the mirror. In this episode, I sit down with Steve Afra, an investor, private lender, and quiet force in the real estate world for over 30 years. Long before real estate became a buzzword online, Steve was navigating the tension between gut instinct and spreadsheets, learning what trust really costs, and betting on people when the banks wouldn't. But this conversation goes far beyond square footage and interest rates. Together we unpack what risk really means, how perception shapes power, how money moves through identity and emotion, and what it looks like to play a long game in a world obsessed with short wins. This is an episode about real estate, yes, but it's also about leverage, leadership, and learning how to see value where others only see volatility. Steve, can you please introduce yourself to the audience?

Steve Afra: 1:33

So I'm Steve Afra. I am the managing partner of Investor Funding. Investor Funding is a national private money firm that lends money to different types of real estate investors. And Let's say if they're trying to do fix and flip, ground to construction, or long-term rental financing. That's it in a nutshell.

Dr. Shay: 1:57

That was a very good summary. Thank you. So you've been in private lending for over 30 years, right?

Steve Afra: 2:02

I've been in lending for over 30 years. I've been in private lending now for the better part of five years.

Dr. Shay: 2:09

Okay. And so this predates social media, of course. Yes. And this is before it made it a trending topic. So what got you into this work?

Steve Afra: 2:19

What got me into lending or private lending?

Dr. Shay: 2:21

Let's do both.

Steve Afra: 2:22

So lending, I kind of fell into, I was 17 and it was the summer. And I worked for a big restaurant in New York. It was an Italian restaurant. And I was a ballet parker there. I was making a lot of money. But that work was just on the weekend. So it was Friday night. Saturday and Sunday. And I was a valet parking manager then. 17, that was a big shot, making a ton of money. But we were making good money. And during the week, I was just relaxing, doing nothing. And my mom wasn't having it. She was like, you're not staying home. There's no way. Like, you have to go find a job. I'm like, I have a job. I run the valet parking at this restaurant. I make a ton of money on the weekends. And she said, no. You know, her best friend, was the executive vice president of the largest mortgage bank back then. And she said, well, she's looking for someone to help her. You're working there. And that was it. And that's how it started. And her best friend is like a second mom to me. So I started working there and I caught the mortgage banking bug.

Dr. Shay: 3:41

Yeah. And then, so what was like your very first big deal and what did you learn from that?

Steve Afra: 3:48

My first big deal. I tell people this, it wasn't really that fascinating, right? My first deal, the first deal that I ever closed originated came from my father. My father was a big fix and flipper back then, a big developer. He was working with the mortgage company that I was working for, and the owner of that mortgage company, who, God rest his soul, just passed away, said, his name was Jacob, he said, this deal is coming in from your dad, why don't you go and originate the deal? I had no idea. I didn't know what I was doing. And I went. I learned how to take a loan application on the spot. And when the deal closed, they gave me 50 bucks.

Dr. Shay: 4:35

So

Steve Afra: 4:36

that was it.

Dr. Shay: 4:37

Okay. And I like that you... But that was your first big deal or your first deal?

Steve Afra: 4:42

First deal.

Dr. Shay: 4:42

Okay. That

Steve Afra: 4:43

was my first deal.

Dr. Shay: 4:43

Okay.

Steve Afra: 4:44

That's a first big deal.

Dr. Shay: 4:45

That's a big deal.

Steve Afra: 4:46

That's a big deal. You know, your first origination. Would you figure it'd be more glamorous? I could tell you I sat there and made tons of money, but no. Yeah. It wasn't like that when I was growing up. And whatever they gave you, you were gracious and grateful for taking whatever it was. Is

Dr. Shay: 4:59

there anything from that deal that you learned that you took with you later on?

Steve Afra: 5:04

Couldn't tell you? No, no, not that particular deal. There are other deals that I, you know, but you remember things for different reasons in my business. More it's for some of the losses that you took, some of the gains that you took, right? So yeah, unfortunately.

Dr. Shay: 5:23

Yeah, so what do you think people misunderstand most about what you do?

Steve Afra: 5:28

What people misunderstand most is Is that they don't understand the difference between private lending and hard money lending and that's kind of been meshed together but historically speaking hard money lending was for people that had a Hardship, that's where the term hard money comes from And it was for people I more than others where let's say they were in some sort of distress, right? And they needed money in a bad way because they had hardship, hence hard money. And now things have changed and they kind of interchange it and they'll say, well, you know, I'm in a foreclosure, can you help me? And I'll tell them, no, that's a hard money lender. I'm a private money lender. And that's the difference. So private money is... basically for people that are within the real estate investment world. That's what private money is for. So we just help real estate investors. And it could be, you can have experience, but on the fix the flip side, you don't even need experience. So if you don't have experience, you could come and we'll lend you money. But it has to be asset-based.

Dr. Shay: 6:50

I see, I see. Was there ever a moment you almost walked away from doing this work?

Steve Afra: 6:56

Yes. I don't even think it was by choice. We had that mortgage meltdown in 2008. I think everybody wanted to walk away. But what ended up happening is the bigger you were in the business back then, the more of a leopard you were looked upon because everybody blamed you for everything that happened, right? And so you were unemployable. You really couldn't do anything because as soon as they would look at your resume and they saw that you had mortgage banking and you were a mortgage banker, you were kind of the enemy of the state, right? It was, oh, you were the bad guy, you did this, and that's how you were kind of looked upon.

Dr. Shay: 7:41

Interesting point too. So having to navigate that kind of reputation that was beyond your control, like how do you build trust in an industry where people are often skeptical?

Steve Afra: 7:52

So how you build trust in any industry is no matter what, even if people are skeptical, you have to take the high road. You always have to try and do the right thing. Right. And that catches up to you both ways. If you don't do the right thing, it's going to catch up to you. And if you do the right thing, it's going to catch up to you in a positive way. So what I've always done, I've always tried to do the right thing, always in business. Even though it's hurt me personally in the short run, it's always kind of helped me in the long run.

Dr. Shay: 8:28

Right, right. And reflecting on your career, what does risk mean to you today in this business? And how has that evolved for you over time?

Steve Afra: 8:38

If you speak to my wife, she says it hasn't evolved. You know, I'm always, when you're lending money, you're always taking some sort of risk, right? But I think the type of risk that we're taking now and with the types of projects that we take risk on, we make sure that, God forbid, if things go south, there's enough room, right, where... we're really not going to take that much of a loss if we take a loss. That's kind of evolved, which obviously is better. I think when I was in the regular side of the business, and let's say I was an FHA lender and people were putting 3% down and getting an FHA loan, there's not much room for risk, right? Because if that loan goes bad and you have to kind of, you know, take the losses on something like that, you're gonna take a heavier loss.

Dr. Shay: 9:40

And I guess going a little deeper on how do you determine whether someone is worth betting on?

Steve Afra: 9:48

Really their experience, right? So we look at the track record and we really look for like for like kind of track record, right? So if the guys put up three or four, homes in affordable housing and he wants to go build a $5 million mansion, we're kind of like, I'm sorry, this is not like for like, right? However, the reverse could be, if someone has put up $5 million mansions and they want to go dabble in affordable housing, you kind of like, well, you know what? He's put up five, $6 million homes. If he's putting up 300, $400,000 homes, the risk is a lot less because you know he's handled larger projects.

Dr. Shay: 10:39

I see, I see. And so you funded luxury homes, like you said, short-term rentals and everything in between. So what does luxury real estate reveal about how people define success?

Steve Afra: 10:53

So I think really it depends on what type of luxury, right? Believe it or not, I think a lot of people... who are buying the luxury homes, and I'm talking 7 million plus, they kind of want to be unknown. Like they don't want people to know. It's kind of people that are in the 2 million to let's say $5 million mark, where they kind of flaunt that a lot more. But in terms of my business, I could tell you something about risk with that type of business. In a market that we're in today where interest rates are still high, there's two markets that I tell my builders that we really like. It's the affordable housing market because people that are looking for affordable housing, whether rates are high or whether rates are low, it really doesn't affect them. They care more about what is my payment and to have an opportunity to actually buy a home.

Dr. Shay: 11:59

Right.

Steve Afra: 12:00

That's most important to them. And they care about the payment. What's my payment? Not, you know, it could be 7%, 8% rate. It really, you know, they get the opportunity and they want to know what the payment is to make sure that they could afford the payment. And if they could afford the payment, they're going to take that opportunity, which is great. So in an environment like this, I always say, you know, affordable housing is fantastic. In any environment, I actually like affordable housing. I think it's recession-proof, it's everything-proof. And it only gets hotter when the rates are better. It's a fantastic market. The other market that I really like that's recession-proof is complete unaffordable housing. So people who are buying homes, let's say 5 million plus, because they're buying it in cash. And in an environment like this, they're getting deals on the type of properties that they wanna buy. So they're gonna buy those properties undervalued. And I see that all the time. So we have a lot of luxury builders today that are sitting on some properties and when they're getting cash offers, the cash offers are coming in $500,000, $250,000 below market value. And they're taking them because they don't have a choice. They have to take them.

Dr. Shay: 13:23

I see. And so when we're looking at the difference between It sounds like people who come to you who just look rich versus being wealthy. What have you learned about the difference between those two types of clients?

Steve Afra: 13:37

So in real estate, especially real estate investments, if people have money in the bank, usually they're not that savvy in real estate. Most of my builders, because of the type of savvy builders, I should say, because the type of business that they do, they're always cash poor. They just don't have enough money because they're involved in so many real estate deals. And when you're involved in so many real estate deals, it sucks up all your liquidity. And If you come across a builder that says he's an avid, very avid builder, active builder, and if you look at their bank account and they're sitting on a couple of million dollars, you know that it's not true. Not to say I don't like it, I love it. When people do have that type of money, I feel more secure. But more than likely, the guy that has the experience and is involved in multiple projects they don't have much in liquid assets. They have a lot in assets, but they don't have a lot in liquid assets.

Dr. Shay: 14:45

Right. So I feel like most people, when they come into a little bit of money, one of the first things they seek to go into is real estate. Yes. What would you recommend to someone who's finally got a little money in their pocket?

Steve Afra: 14:58

I think it's a great idea, but you have to be very careful just because you come into money. I'll give you an example. So I actually took a business trip down to Orlando recently, and I met some entrepreneurs who are in the tax preparation business. And these guys make a ton of money on a quarterly basis, like they'll make three, $4 million just in a quarter for taxes. And those guys were getting involved in real estate in Orlando. And recently, Orlando is one of the top 10 markets that are taking the biggest hits in the real estate market. So some of the conversations that I was having with them was, well, how can they shelter themselves from such swings? And I explained to them, I said, look, leverage is not for everybody, but in situations like this, you might want to lever yourself so that at least you get some of that cash back and you can shelter yourself from some potential losses. Or when the market's getting crushed, that's when you're getting the better deals, right? And for them to recoup some of that money so that they can offset some of the losses that they're taking by being able to purchase some new projects with better returns. And they loved it.

Dr. Shay: 16:24

Interesting. So I've seen on some of your Instagram posts talking about clients that turned a vision into a multi-million dollar return. What do those clients have in common beyond money?

Steve Afra: 16:34

Like you said, vision. And that's the most important thing. What I try to tell people is, a lot of people come and they say, I don't have the money. What do I do? I usually tell them, look, if the vision's right, and the returns are right, the money will follow, right? So you just have to have the vision, put a great product together, and then present it to different investors. And if it really is, and if you could show them, hey, you can make a return on this, you know, I need $100,000, and necessarily I wouldn't go to one person for 100,000. I would say go to five people for $20,000 a piece that are looking to invest in real estate that are sitting on something and say, look, this is my vision. This is what it looks like. And if it looks great and it's out of the box, it's not kind of what's in the norm and you could show them the returns, who's gonna say no? I think a lot of people, They start out saying, well, I'm never going to be able to find the money. And I tell them, well, if you wake up every morning and you tell yourself whatever it is, that becomes your reality, right? But if you change that around and you say, no, I have the perfect project. People are going to invest in this project. And you believe in the project, the money always comes.

Dr. Shay: 18:02

And you brought up an interesting point about sort of define the odds. So have you ever had a deal or one that you could think of that surprised you where maybe like the outcome went against all logic or prediction?

Steve Afra: 18:15

Fortunately, sometimes it goes the other way. Where I'll be like, I really believe in this deal and usually tanks. When I'm lending money, I'm just joking. No, I've had surprises. I've had surprises, I'll tell you. In your neck of the woods, kind of farther north, in, I think it's either Washington or Oregon. I think it's Oregon. And you're from Northern California, so it's close. And they've just started to do this in San Diego. there were these guys where they started kind of deregulating ADUs, where you could put up an ADU, an auxiliary detached unit, right? So you could call it like a granny pad or things like that. And in Oregon, when you put up that ADU, now you can sell that ADU as a standalone property. which is fantastic. So these guys were buying homes with some land in the back, putting up three of these auxiliary units and selling them. So when they first got presented to us, we were obviously skeptical. So we really didn't invest that much or lend that much against these properties, which turned out to be the wrong thing because they knocked it out of the park and they're still knocking it out of the

Dr. Shay: 19:42

park. Interesting. Nice. I think we have a mutual friend, Michael Gomez, here in Nashville. Yeah, I recently talked to him and we had a great conversation about... I love Michael. I know, he's great. He's so funny too. And we were talking more about the emotional aspect of real estate, like how the conflicts he has to manage in a day between agents, between customers, all the above. In your line of work, how does emotion show

Steve Afra: 20:07

up? I think in anything in real estate, emotions kill you.

Dr. Shay: 20:10

Yeah.

Steve Afra: 20:11

Once you add that emotional component into any project, unless it's your personal property, you're just, you're going to get crushed. And you just have to detach yourself and understand that everything is just numbers, right? And once you move away from that, and then you have a feeling, well, your feeling doesn't mean anything. Your feelings are going to lose you money, right? And if you're not going with the statistics, Once you involve, especially in my line of business, where I'm lending money, if I have just a feeling and I don't go with the numbers and I emotionally attach myself to something, where the numbers are always telling me, run away, this is a bad deal, you're going to end up losing. There's no room in emotions and business unless you're in the people business, right? And unless you're running a non-profit, And then that's a different story, right? But if you're for-profit and you're an entrepreneur, then there's nothing wrong with that. You know, a lot of people think like, you know, that's a problem. It's not. We're sitting in an entrepreneur's building, right? If you're an entrepreneur, my biggest advice is take emotion out of business. and make your decisions based on the numbers and the facts, and that's it.

Dr. Shay: 21:35

Do you find yourself having to help other people manage their emotions when they're working with you, or is that something that just doesn't really?

Steve Afra: 21:40

Yeah.

Dr. Shay: 21:42

How do you get

Steve Afra: 21:43

them off to the other side? On both ways, right? With both ways. You could have an underwriter that's emotionally attached to a deal where they feel it's a bad deal for some reason. It could be attached. Maybe they don't like the loan officer. And all of a sudden, all of this particular loan officer's deals are just getting denied. And you're saying, well, what's happening? So when you're looking at the KPIs and you realize that, you're like, there's something wrong. Is it the loan officer? Well, no, because if it's going to a different underwriter, his deals are getting approved and they're coming this way, they're all getting denied. Right? It should be both ways, right? So if he's writing bad deals, then across the board his deals should be getting. So then you have a conversation with the underwriter and you have to say, hey, you could like this person or not like this person. That has nothing to do with the crux of the deal. You've got to make that decision. You've got to base your decision on the deal. Well, this person, you know, they're always giving this type of deal. Well, that's none of your business. Like, And if you can't handle it, then that's... So we do, yes. And that happens, unfortunately.

Dr. Shay: 23:00

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. And I guess reflecting on your, again, your own entrepreneur journey, are there any, I guess, lessons or relationships or attitudes about money that you had to unlearn to get where you are today?

Steve Afra: 23:14

I think that, you know, what do they call it? Commission breath, right? Where... everything you try to do is try to make money. But people sense that off of you, right? I think what people forget is whatever business that you're trying to do, if you're trying to do it well, with the betterment of whoever you're trying to do it with in mind, right? Whether it's, I'm trying to sell real estate. I'll just give you an example. Well, I'm going to try and stick this person in a... you know, more expensive house so I can make more commission. Rather than listening to that person and try to place that person in the right place that's right for them. It makes a big difference. And that energy, whoever it is, it's going to pick up on it and you're going to end up losing. Whether you want to call it karma, whether you want to call it whatever you want to call it. It's just, you know, money is the same as energy. And It's just, it is what it is. And when you attach negative energy to it, it's gonna have negative effects one way or the other. It could be financial, and that's a good thing, because if it comes in a different way, like health, which it can also, then there's nothing you can do.

Dr. Shay: 24:40

And can you talk to me a little bit about resiliency in your line of work? Having to push, like you said, the tough markets, the people, the emotions, all the pieces.

Steve Afra: 24:48

So... I'll tell you resiliency and entrepreneurship in general. In order to be an entrepreneur, you have to be able to endure the losses. And a lot of people can't. And when they face the first loss is when they'll pack up their bags and they'll head home and they'll say, well, I need to have a job or it's a W2 job and I can't handle this anymore. And my wife is here and she's my witness. There've been times where we haven't had to look at price tags and we're buying everything. And then there've been times where we don't even know how to feed our daughter. And it's unfortunate, but those come. But the thing is, you have to have enough faith in yourself to know that even in those times where you're just looking around and you're like, well, what are we gonna do? But if you apply the same principles, you don't cheat anyone, you don't lie, you stay consistent that you're going to come out of those times. And, you know, I'll say that it's like a slingshot sometimes, and you have to believe that, where when you're falling down, you feel like, wow, I'm just never going to get back. But sometimes it's like, you know, when you have a slingshot, you have to pull it back and let it go in order to really go further. And the further you pull that back, right, the further you pull that back, the further you're going to go. And if you have that belief to understand, hey, I'm falling, but maybe I need to fall really, really back in order to go really, really forward at some point. And that's the faith that you have to have in yourself.

Dr. Shay: 26:33

Gosh, this is... You're killing me softly right now because as a new entrepreneur, I'm going through a lot of this right now. It's so up and down and it's so interesting to see or to learn how I think other people think your day looks like. I think they just think that you're playing hopscotch or just writing down like I'm journaling all day. It's a nonstop grind and it's almost like a you're lucky you get to work for yourself type of thing. I'm what?

Steve Afra: 27:00

But they don't understand that, right? It's... So my nephew is really, really bright. And he got a job with Price Waterhouse, right? And they're working him to death. I mean, this kid is putting in 14, 15 hour days, let's say, right? And his dad, which is my brother-in-law, is ultra successful. And I said, they said, you know, wow, they're killing this guy. He said, well, you don't even realize. He said, I guarantee if you log in the numbers, that you work, it's gonna be more than my son's work. And how do you determine that? Because I'll wake up, and just because we don't punch in the clock, we don't realize how many hours it is, right? Because if we did punch in the clock, it's gonna be two times, maybe three times the amount anybody else in the organization is working. And my wife witnesses this because she sees the late night calls. She sees the weekend calls with my business partners. She sees me up at night at midnight returning emails, right? Where I don't expect that, right? From anyone in my organization. I feel bad sometimes for my executive assistant that's here also because she will be getting emails on the weekend. I don't expect her to respond, but she's going to get them or she will get them late at night because I'm having conversations with different people and I need to remind myself and remind her to please help me out. And she'll wake up in the morning. But that's what people don't realize. We're not on the clock.

Dr. Shay: 28:49

Yes, exactly. And shout out to all the spouses out there supporting entrepreneurs.

Steve Afra: 28:53

Oh, yeah, 100%. Because they're in on it with you, right?

Dr. Shay: 28:56

Yes, absolutely.

Steve Afra: 28:57

They're there. And they're kind of living vicariously through whatever is going on in your life and what's going on in your business. But the other thing I want to say for entrepreneurs is you have to stay consistent.

Dr. Shay: 29:13

I love that word.

Steve Afra: 29:14

It's very important. And I tell people, I know... Plenty of crazy people that are successful, right? But you want to know something? They're consistently crazy, right? And at least people know, wow, I know this guy is a psychopath. He's crazy as hell. But...

Dr. Shay: 29:31

You know what to expect.

Steve Afra: 29:32

You know what to expect. But if they were to go to him, I have one person in particular that I know, right? But he's great at what he does. And sometimes I'll sit there and say, how does this guy even get clients? He's crazy. But at least they know he's crazy. And they're, oh, you got to deal with this guy. He's not. Well, he gets the job done. Right, right. But what if he was really nice one day, then he was medium nice, and then he was crazy? It would be too inconsistent, right? And I tell people, either go right or go left. But if you're going to be in the middle, no one knows what they're going to get. That's when you get run over on the road, right? Pick the lane. Either I'm going up or I'm coming down. Pick one. But everybody's got to know what they're getting from you at the end of the day consistently.

Dr. Shay: 30:24

Yeah, I think that translates to relationships too, right? It's nice to know what you're coming home to every day. 100%.

Steve Afra: 30:29

Unless you're married to a Gemini. Oh, my God. My son's a Gemini. I don't know what I'm getting in the morning. I tell my wife, you know. Whoever this guy's gonna end up with, let's help him.

Dr. Shay: 30:44

For the record, I'm a Gemini too. And my partner told me I'm the most consistent person he's ever met.

Steve Afra: 30:51

Wow.

Dr. Shay: 30:52

So shout out to the Gemini.

Steve Afra: 30:54

I think Gemini females are different than Gemini males. Because my poor mother had to deal with my father, who was a Gemini. I got to see Gemini male. And my son happens to be a carbon copy of my father. So

Dr. Shay: 31:12

what do you hope the next generation understands about money that yours didn't?

Steve Afra: 31:19

I think my generation understood a lot more than the new generation. And I'll tell you, I think the new generation doesn't understand the value of money and that their whole thing is work smarter not harder and that's not the case it's work harder and smarter right and i'll tell you this i know plenty of people that work harder than smarter and they have way better results and they're more successful and that's just what it is it's a matter of i think a lot of people in this generation want instant gratification because They want Amazon. And it's not even Amazon next day. It's Amazon now. They want TV shows. Where my generation had to... When I was watching cartoons, it was Saturday morning cartoons. And I had to wait. And when we had TV shows, it was every week. We would watch 30 minutes and then we had to wait for the next Wednesday or the next Tuesday to watch the next episode.

Dr. Shay: 32:32

Gosh.

Steve Afra: 32:34

Right? It was just crazy. That's horrible. That's horrible. Now they get Netflix and they're watching eight episodes in one night. Guilty. My wife too. Yeah. She's the same thing, right? And, you know, we're watching a new show. She's miserable that we have to wait until Friday until it's coming out. But for me, it's exciting. I miss those days. Or if they want food, I mean, we had to go ride our bikes 30 minutes, sit down in a Chinese food place with God knows what the hell they were serving us. It wasn't meat, you know? Wait, take the bus or, you know, ride the bike 30 minutes. Now my kids want food. Instantaneous. They want... Movies, it's instantaneous. And I think the whole generation, they think that money comes like that too. And it really doesn't. It's not. They look at certain people that are instantaneously successful, but that's not for the majority of people. It's not the case.

Dr. Shay: 33:30

Yeah. That's the part that's hard to grasp. I think I find myself sometimes I think I'm grounded enough to know everything you just said makes sense. But the little part of me, you know, I've been at this full time for like, let's just say five months. And I'm like, I'm not rich yet. Like, what is this? I feel like I'm doing everything right. But you also, at the same time, it's intimidating to see how many podcasters on YouTube who have millions of views and not compare yourself to that. And kind of find the balance of what's real and, you know, how long it really does take.

Steve Afra: 34:02

So one other thing is, For entrepreneurs, I say, never compare yourself to somebody else. It's compare yourself to yourself. So it's, you know, I have 10,000 followers, I wanna have 15. And when I get 15, I wanna have 20. I'm never looking at the next guy and say, well, this guy's got 30, I have to chase him. Who cares about that guy? Just set goals. And whatever goals that you're setting, people say set achievable goals. I kind of disagree. Set somewhat unachievable goals, right? I

Dr. Shay: 34:41

like that.

Steve Afra: 34:41

You just want to reach a little bit further. And I think that's the key.

Dr. Shay: 34:46

Yeah. I mean, it's just such a fault, right, to not compare yourself to others. But like, of course, you're absolutely right. And I think what happens a lot of times, too, is you're comparing where you are at the start of the race and they're already at the end. half mile or whatever it is. And you just don't see that part for them to get to that half mile. So that's the part you're not

Steve Afra: 35:06

seeing. And we don't know what they're doing to get there, right? As long as you're doing your best. So I'll tell you, for instance, again, I'll go back to my wife. My wife is a very talented physical specimen in terms of athletics, right? And whether me, I was what was called a blue collar athlete, right? know what a blue collar athlete is and it means i had decent um athletic ability but i had such drive that made me a good athlete and i got a chance to be a collegiate athlete because of that where there was plenty of athletes that were way better athletically physically than me that couldn't make it so now if my wife had back then my blue collar work with her physical activity like physical abilities she probably could have been a famous athlete right which you know it didn't happen for whatever reason she you know she was successful in different ways um but the the whole the whole point is you have to know like what are my limitations right and at an early age i knew what my limitations were athletically and i Just, I would never, I tried to put the blinders on and not look at the other kids that were maybe faster than me in the 40. And because then I would get, I would get nagged out. Like, oh man, I can't compete with these kids, right? So it's kind of helped me in business life where whatever could be happening around me, right? I aspire, I look at people and I say, oh, this guy's successful, right? But I'm never chasing him. I'm just chasing myself. Yeah. And setting goals for myself, whatever that goal is.

Dr. Shay: 36:59

What's your relationship to legacy?

Steve Afra: 37:01

So

Dr. Shay: 37:02

I

Steve Afra: 37:05

try to tell people not to have an ego, right? But I've put 30 years plus into the mortgage business. And when it comes to legacy, I've put my dues into this business. I've given it my whole life. And the legacy that I want when I leave and exit this business, I want my legacy to be, I exited better than anybody else in the business. And that's my goal, my legacy. Now, personal legacy is my children, right? And however, I just want them to be good humans when I'm not here. And to treat others, just be kind people. My personal legacy is completely zero ego compared to my business legacy. My business legacy is all ego, whether it's right or it's wrong, it is what it is. It's the competitive nature of me. My personal legacy is if I leave behind kind human beings, I know I did the right thing in life.

Dr. Shay: 38:21

I love that. That's beautiful. And let's see, if you had to write your biggest lesson behind your career on a billboard, what would it say? You can't fit a lot of words on there now.

Steve Afra: 38:34

Persistence broke resistance. Elaborate a little bit. I just don't take no for an answer. I like it. When people say no... in business, I always take it as a maybe. It kind of translates like, no, it doesn't translate as no in my mind. It goes, well, maybe there's a shot, right? And then I just don't stop. I don't stop.

Dr. Shay: 39:04

And you know, so again, my podcast is about resolution, the resolution room, right? So after decades of watching people chase wealth, make bold bets, and rebuild from failure, what in your experience does real resolution require? I

Steve Afra: 39:22

can tell you that there have been times in my life, like I said, where I've had tremendous success, followed by the lowest of lows. On a personal level, and on a financial level, where a lot of my peers, a lot of my friends, they kind of, I guess, look up to me and, well, my best friend, even a year ago when he was facing some sort of adversity himself said, I can't believe how many times you went through this and you made it through. It's amazing, right? But I think you have to have, not I think, I know you have to have faith. And that's the most important thing. To understand that even if you hit rock bottom, which I have, right? To say, maybe there's some grace even in that. Because if I lose everything, then I get to really rebuild myself. And then this time around, I'll get to really rebuild myself in a way where I'm not going to lose everything. And the fortress that I'm going to build, it's going to be on such crazy foundation that it's going to withhold and withstand anything that's going to come. And a lot of people don't get a chance to do that, right? Because some of them are going to live in a house or a fortress that's always half built and that shaky ground, right? And sometimes losing everything, is the grace of the almighty, right? Because he's giving you clean slate. Here you go. How do you want to rebuild yourself? And as hard as it is, you get a chance to do it.

Dr. Shay: 41:11

Steve, Steve, Steve. Thank you so much. Can you let everyone know where to follow you in your

Steve Afra: 41:16

work? So they can find me on Instagram at afrasteve. That's my Instagram. I'm on LinkedIn. And I think I'm on YouTube. I am. And those are the best ways to get to me.

Dr. Shay: 41:31

I mean, thank you so much for coming in the residency

Steve Afra: 41:33

room. Thank you for having me. Thank you. And I wish you the best of luck. Thank you. Thank you. Just keep at it.

Dr. Shay: 41:40

In a market that's constantly shifting and in a culture that often confuses image with impact, Steve reminded us that real success isn't built on luck. It's built on listening well, reading people with care, and learning when to lean in or walk away. From first-time buyers to seasoned investors, from spreadsheet calculations to gut instincts, what this episode revealed is simple. Real estate is emotional. And navigating it well requires clarity, not just about the deal, but about yourself. Whether you're building a portfolio or just trying to make bold moves in your own life, the lesson is the same. Calculate at risk is never just about math. It's about meaning. Because at the end of the day, your most powerful investment is in the property. It's in the person and who you become through the process. As always, thank you for joining me in the Resolution Room. If this conversation moved you, challenged you, or gave you something to carry forward, consider supporting the show. You can explore our wearable wisdom collection in our mind shop, where each piece is designed to spark reflection and dialogue. You can also join our growing community for behind-the-scenes conversations, resources, and support of your own journey through tension and transformation. And if you just want to say thank you in a simple way, you can always buy me a coffee. Every gesture helps keep this space going. All the links are in the show notes. And until next time, Keep building in the quiet because that's what will carry you forward.